Netflix banning HE tunnels

Wed Jun 8 15:19:52 UTC 2016

> On Jun 7, 2016, at 11:25 PM, Ca By <cb.list6 at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> On Tuesday, June 7, 2016, chris <tknchris at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
>> I disagree. if they have no native v6 then theres no reason why they
>> shouldnt be able to use the v6 from HE and why should the internet treat
>> that users traffic any differently because its coming from HE or tunneled?
>> 
>> 
> This is not about ipv6, it is about an anonymous tunnel.

Contrary to your repeated assertions, HE tunnels are NOT anonymous.

HE operates a perfectly fine RWHOIS server that provides sufficient information
about each tunnel that it cannot be considered anonymous.

> 
> 
>> Theres also tons of folks affected who arent on HE, arent tunneling, etc.
>> Theres been many people affected who are being told something is wrong with
>> their network that works fine for anything other than netflix.
>> 
>> chris
>> 
> 
> Agreed. This is also not about ipv6. Doing geo-location based DRM is hard
> and IMHO painful for all parties involved.
> 
> My point is IPv6 should not be the collateral damage or conflated in an
> issue that has nothing to do ipv6.  This is about an anonymous tunnel
> service and strict DRM rules.

No, Cameron, this is about Netflix telling people to turn off IPv6.

Admittedly, the above issues are what is leading them to this point, but their
proposed solution “turn off IPv6” remains the core problem being raised here.

> IPv6 works fine.  Tunnels and VPN and Netflix do not work fine.

This is like saying “airplanes work fine, it’s just airlines that suck.”

While it’s technically true, airlines are the only experience of airplanes
that most people every get access to.

Owen

> 
> CB
> 
>> 
>> 
>> On Tue, Jun 7, 2016 at 11:10 PM, Ca By <cb.list6 at gmail.com
>> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','cb.list6 at gmail.com');>> wrote:
>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On Tuesday, June 7, 2016, chris <tknchris at gmail.com
>>> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','tknchris at gmail.com');>> wrote:
>>> 
>>>> it really feels alot like what net neutrality was supposed to avoid.
>>>> making
>>>> a policy where there is different treatment of one set of bits over
>>>> another
>>>> 
>>>> "your ipv6 bits are bad but if you turn it off the ipv4 bits are just
>>>> fine"
>>>> 
>>>> someone mentioned the fact that netflix is not just a content company but
>>>> also acting as a network operator maybe the two should be separate
>>>> 
>>>> i also find it ironic that they arent big fans of ISPs who use NAT or CGN
>>>> and dont have 1 customer per IP yet their stifiling ipv6 and telling
>>>> users
>>>> to turn it off. you really cant have it both ways and complain about NAT
>>>> and also say you recommend shutting off ipv6 :)
>>>> 
>>>> hopefully they will realize imposing their own policy on how customers
>>>> use
>>>> their networks and the internet  this isnt worth losing customers over
>>>> 
>>>> chris
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>> 
>>> Again. An HE tunnel is not production ipv6. It is a toy.
>>> 
>>> Telling people to turn of HE tunnel is NOT the same as turning off
>>> production ipv6.
>>> 
>>> CB
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>>> On Tue, Jun 7, 2016 at 6:35 PM, Elvis Daniel Velea <elvis at velea.eu>
>>>> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>> apparently, all they see is 3 people complaining on this mailing list..
>>>>> well, this makes it 4 with me (and I have a bunch of people in various
>>>>> countries complaining on facebook that they have been banned from using
>>>>> netflix because they use an HE tunnel.
>>>>> 
>>>>> their answer - TURN IPV6 OFF!!! you're a techie so if you know how to
>>>>> setup a tunnel, you must know how to redirect netflix to use IPv4
>>>> only...
>>>>> really?
>>>>> the answer just pisses me off!
>>>>> 
>>>>> Netflix, YOU are the ones forcing people to turn IPv4 off... this is
>>>> just
>>>>> insane. tens (if not hundred) of thousands of people chose to use HE
>>>>> tunnels because their ISP does not offer IPv6..
>>>>> do you really expect all of them to turn it off? do you really want
>>>> IPv6
>>>>> usage in the world to go down by a few percent because you are unable
>>>> to
>>>>> figure out how to serve content?
>>>>> 
>>>>> I know nobody at Netflix will even answer to the e-mails on this list..
>>>>> but I hope that they will at least acknowledge the problem and figure
>>>> an
>>>>> other way to block content by country.
>>>>> ie: they could try to talk to HE to register each tunnel in a database
>>>>> that points to the country of the user..
>>>>> 
>>>>> cheers,
>>>>> elvis
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> On 6/8/16 1:01 AM, chris wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>>> I am also in the same boat with a whole subnet affected even without a
>>>>>> tunnel, tried multiple netflix support channels starting in early
>>>> march
>>>>>> and
>>>>>> the ranges is still blocked 3 months later.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> I was a big fan of the service and somewhat of an addict up till this
>>>> but
>>>>>> I've really been shocked how this has been (mis)handled
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> chris
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> On Tue, Jun 7, 2016 at 7:23 AM, Davide Davini <diotonante at gmail.com>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Today I discovered Netflix flagged my IPv6 IP block as "proxy/VPN"
>>>> and I
>>>>>>> can't use it if I don't disable the HE tunnel, which is the only way
>>>> for
>>>>>>> me to have IPv6 at the moment.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> But the fun part has been Netflix tech support:
>>>>>>> "Oh I see, yeah we have been receiving reports of some other members
>>>>>>> with ipv6 having this issues, at the moment Netflix is not really
>>>>>>> designed to work with ipv6 connections, in this case I can recommend
>>>> you
>>>>>>> two things, one is to turn off the ipv6 and the other one will be to
>>>>>>> contact directly with Hurricane Electric, there are some customers
>>>> that
>>>>>>> were able to use Netflix with an ipv6 under some specific settings
>>>> set
>>>>>>> by Hurricane Electric."
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> I don't obviously expect HE to fix it, I don't pay for shit, it's a
>>>> free
>>>>>>> service, why should they?
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> But it's fun to know that " Netflix is not really designed to work
>>>> with
>>>>>>> ipv6 connections ".
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Who did it say on this ML that the best way to solve these issues is
>>>>>>> Netflix tech support? :)
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Ciao,
>>>>>>> Davide Davini
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>> 
>>> 
>> 