Verizon Policy Statement on Net Neutrality

Sun Mar 1 03:55:19 UTC 2015

On February 28, 2015 at 17:20 nanog at ics-il.net (Mike Hammett) wrote:
 > As I said earlier, there are only so many channels available. Channels added to upload are taken away from download. People use upload so infrequently it would be gross negligence on the provider's behalf. 

And as I said earlier it's push/pull, give people lousy upload speeds
and they won't use services which depend on good upload speeds.

And given lousy upload speeds the opportunities to develop for example
backup services in a world of terabyte disks is limited. At 1mb/s it
takes approx 100,000 seconds to upload 1TB, that's roughly one week,
blue sky.

Doesn't seem like the basis for a good business plan tho obviously
it's more complicated than that IRL. Maybe there are enough people
with 10+mb/s upload speeds today to make a go of such a business,
uploading a TB in 18 hrs might be within reason as one doesn't do that
often assuming some sort of incremental backup.

Until download speeds approximated video speed I'd imagine few people
used streaming video, so NetFlix mailed DVD's via USPS.

etc.

 > 
 > 
 > 
 > 
 > ----- 
 > Mike Hammett 
 > Intelligent Computing Solutions 
 > http://www.ics-il.com 
 > 
 > ----- Original Message -----
 > 
 > From: "Clayton Zekelman" <clayton at mnsi.net> 
 > To: "Barry Shein" <bzs at world.std.com> 
 > Cc: "NANOG" <nanog at nanog.org> 
 > Sent: Saturday, February 28, 2015 5:14:18 PM 
 > Subject: Re: Verizon Policy Statement on Net Neutrality 
 > 
 > You do of course realize that the asymmetry in CATV forward path/return path existed LONG before residential Internet access over cable networks exited? 
 > 
 > Sent from my iPhone 
 > 
 > > On Feb 28, 2015, at 5:38 PM, Barry Shein <bzs at world.std.com> wrote: 
 > > 
 > > 
 > > Can we stop the disingenuity? 
 > > 
 > > Asymmetric service was introduced to discourage home users from 
 > > deploying "commercial" services. As were bandwidth caps. 
 > > 
 > > One can argue all sorts of other "benefits" of this but when this 
 > > started that was the problem on the table: How do we forcibly 
 > > distinguish commercial (i.e., more expensive) from non-commercial 
 > > usage? 
 > > 
 > > Answer: Give them a lot less upload than download bandwidth. 
 > > 
 > > Originally these asymmetric, typically DSL, links were hundreds of 
 > > kbits upstream, not a lot more than a dial-up line. 
 > > 
 > > That and NAT thereby making it difficult -- not impossible, the savvy 
 > > were in the noise -- to map domain names to permanent IP addresses. 
 > > 
 > > That's all this was about. 
 > > 
 > > It's not about "that's all they need", "that's all they want", etc. 
 > > 
 > > Now that bandwidth is growing rapidly and asymmetric is often 
 > > 10/50mbps or 20/100 it almost seems nonsensical in that regard, entire 
 > > medium-sized ISPs ran on less than 10mbps symmetric not long ago. But 
 > > it still imposes an upper bound of sorts, along with addressing 
 > > limitations and bandwidth caps. 
 > > 
 > > That's all this is about. 
 > > 
 > > The telcos for many decades distinguished "business" voice service 
 > > from "residential" service, even for just one phone line, though they 
 > > mostly just winged it and if they declared you were defrauding them by 
 > > using a residential line for a business they might shut you off and/or 
 > > back bill you. Residential was quite a bit cheaper, most importantly 
 > > local "unlimited" (unmetered) talk was only available on residential 
 > > lines. Business lines were even coded 1MB (one m b) service, one 
 > > metered business (line). 
 > > 
 > > The history is clear and they've just reinvented the model for 
 > > internet but proactively enforced by technology rather than studying 
 > > your usage patterns or whatever they used to do, scan for business ads 
 > > using "residential" numbers, beyond bandwidth usage analysis. 
 > > 
 > > And the CATV companies are trying to reinvent CATV pricing for 
 > > internet, turn Netflix (e.g.) into an analogue of HBO and other 
 > > premium CATV services. 
 > > 
 > > What's so difficult to understand here? 
 > > 
 > > -- 
 > > -Barry Shein 
 > > 
 > > The World | bzs at TheWorld.com | http://www.TheWorld.com 
 > > Purveyors to the Trade | Voice: 800-THE-WRLD | Dial-Up: US, PR, Canada 
 > > Software Tool & Die | Public Access Internet | SINCE 1989 *oo* 