Whats' a good product for a high-density Wireless network setup?

Sat Jun 20 11:59:30 UTC 2015

I don't think there's an actual standard for density, at least I am not
aware of one. Independent of the vendor you use, this guide should be valid
at 80% of implementations:

http://www.cisco.com/c/en/us/products/collateral/wireless/aironet-1250-series/design_guide_c07-693245.html

On Meraki's website there's a case study of an entertainment venue that has
about 2,000 users per night, so I am assuming 1,000 which is your cause
should be doable.

On Sat, Jun 20, 2015 at 5:41 AM, Sina Owolabi <notify.sina at gmail.com> wrote:

> Thanks everybody. I've been corrected on density... I've been informed that
> it's to be a minimum of 1000 users per building.
> That's 8,000 users. (8 buildings, not counting walkways and courtyards,
> admin, etc.)
> Does this qualify as high-density?
>
> On Sat, Jun 20, 2015 at 5:33 AM Ray Soucy <rps at maine.edu> wrote:
>
> > Well, I could certainly be wrong, but it's news to me if UBNT started
> > supporting DFS in the US.
> >
> > Your first screenshot is listing the UAP for 5240 which is channel 48,
> > U-NII-1.  The second show 5825 which is the upper limit of U-NNI-3.  I
> > don't see any U-NII-2 in what you posted.
> >
> > This forum post may be a bit out of date, but I haven't seen any
> > announcement or information on the forums to indicate the situation has
> > changed, and I'm pretty good at searching:
> >
> > https://community.ubnt.com/t5/UniFi-Wireless/DFS/m-p/700461#M54771
> >
> > From this thread it looks like the ability to configure DFS channels in
> the
> > US was a UI bug and only showing for ZH anyway.  IIRC they actually got
> in
> > a bit of trouble with the FCC over not restricting the use of these
> > channels enough.
> >
> > Regardless of whether or not the FCC has cleared UBNT indoor products for
> > U-NII-2 and U-NII-2-extended (and I haven't seen evidence of that yet),
> > until you can configure APs to use those channels in the controller
> without
> > violating FCC regulations I don't consider them usable.
> >
> > The UAP-AC doesn't seem to support DFS channels at all even without FCC
> > restrictions, which kind of kills the point of AC, only 4 x 40 MHz or 2 x
> > 80 MHz channels doesn't cut it when we're talking about density.
> >
> > Note we're talking about indoor wireless and there ARE some UBNT products
> > for outdoor WISP use that do support DFS and have been cleared by the
> FCC,
> > but we would only be looking at the UAP-PRO or UAP-AC in this case so
> maybe
> > that's the point of confusion here.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > On Fri, Jun 19, 2015 at 11:36 PM, Faisal Imtiaz <
> faisal at snappytelecom.net>
> > wrote:
> >
> > > FCC Cert claims different.
> > >
> > > :)
> > >
> > > Faisal Imtiaz
> > > Snappy Internet & Telecom
> > > 7266 SW 48 Street
> > > Miami, FL 33155
> > > Tel: 305 663 5518 x 232
> > >
> > > Help-desk: (305)663-5518 Option 2 or Email: Support at Snappytelecom.net
> > >
> > > ------------------------------
> > >
> > > *From: *"Josh Luthman" <josh at imaginenetworksllc.com>
> > > *To: *"Faisal Imtiaz" <faisal at snappytelecom.net>
> > > *Cc: *"NANOG list" <nanog at nanog.org>, "Ray Soucy" <rps at maine.edu>
> > > *Sent: *Friday, June 19, 2015 9:16:37 PM
> > >
> > > *Subject: *Re: Whats' a good product for a high-density Wireless
> network
> > > setup?
> > >
> > > Uhm he's not wrong...
> > >
> > > Josh Luthman
> > > Office: 937-552-2340
> > > Direct: 937-552-2343
> > > 1100 Wayne St
> > > Suite 1337
> > > Troy, OH 45373
> > > On Jun 19, 2015 9:13 PM, "Faisal Imtiaz" <faisal at snappytelecom.net>
> > wrote:
> > >
> > >> >>>The thing you need to watch out for with Ubiquiti is that they
> don't
> > >> support DFS, so the entire U-NII-2 channel space is off limits for 5
> > GHz.
> > >>
> > >> Huh ????
> > >>
> > >> Please verify your facts before making blanket statements which are
> not
> > >> accurate ...
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> Faisal Imtiaz
> > >> Snappy Internet & Telecom
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> ----- Original Message -----
> > >> > From: "Ray Soucy" <rps at maine.edu>
> > >> > To: "Sina Owolabi" <notify.sina at gmail.com>
> > >> > Cc: "nanog at nanog.org list" <nanog at nanog.org>
> > >> > Sent: Friday, June 19, 2015 7:07:01 PM
> > >> > Subject: Re: Whats' a good product for a high-density Wireless
> network
> > >> setup?
> > >> >
> > >> > I know you don't want to hear this answer because of cost but I've
> had
> > >> good
> > >> > luck with Cisco for very high density (about 1,000 clients in a
> packed
> > >> > auditorium actively using the network as they follow along with the
> > >> > presenter).
> > >> >
> > >> > The thing you need to watch out for with Ubiquiti is that they don't
> > >> > support DFS, so the entire U-NII-2 channel space is off limits for 5
> > >> GHz.
> > >> > That's pretty significant because you're limited to 9 x 20 MHz
> > channels
> > >> or
> > >> > 4 x 40 MHz channels.  Keeping the power level down and creating
> small
> > >> cells
> > >> > is essential for high density, so with less channels your hands are
> > >> really
> > >> > tied in that case.  Also, avoid the Zero Handoff marketing nonsense
> > they
> > >> > advertise; I'm sure it can work great for a low client residential
> > area
> > >> but
> > >> > it requires all APs to share a single channel and depends upon
> > >> coordinating
> > >> > only one active transmitter at a time, so it simply won't scale.
> > >> >
> > >> > I don't have experience with other vendors at large scale or high
> > >> density.
> > >> >
> > >> > I don't think what you're talking about is really high density
> anymore
> > >> > though.  That's just normal coverage.  Wireless is a lot more
> > >> complicated
> > >> > than selecting a vendor, though.  If you know what you're doing even
> > >> > Ubiquiti could work decently, but if you don't even a Cisco solution
> > >> won't
> > >> > save you.  You really need to be on top of surveying correctly and
> > >> having
> > >> > appropriate AP placement and channel distribution.
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >> > On Fri, Jun 19, 2015 at 1:57 AM, Sina Owolabi <
> notify.sina at gmail.com>
> > >> wrote:
> > >> >
> > >> > > Hi
> > >> > >
> > >> > > We are profiling equipment and design for an expected high user
> > >> density
> > >> > > network of multiple, close nit, residential/hostel units. Its
> going
> > >> to be
> > >> > > 8-10 buildings with possibly a over 1000 users at any given time.
> > >> > > We are looking at Ruckus and Ubiquiti as options to get over the
> > high
> > >> > > number of devices we are definitely going to encounter.
> > >> > >
> > >> > > How did you do it, and what would you advise for product and
> layout?
> > >> > >
> > >> > > Thanks in advance!
> > >> > >
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >> > --
> > >> > Ray Patrick Soucy
> > >> > Network Engineer
> > >> > University of Maine System
> > >> >
> > >> > T: 207-561-3526
> > >> > F: 207-561-3531
> > >> >
> > >> > MaineREN, Maine's Research and Education Network
> > >> > www.maineren.net
> > >> >
> > >>
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Ray Patrick Soucy
> > Network Engineer
> > University of Maine System
> >
> > T: 207-561-3526
> > F: 207-561-3531
> >
> > MaineREN, Maine's Research and Education Network
> > www.maineren.net
> >
>