eBay is looking for network heavies...

Jimmy Hess mysidia at gmail.com
Mon Jun 8 03:19:22 UTC 2015


On Sun, Jun 7, 2015 at 7:28 AM, Stephen Satchell <list at satchell.net> wrote:
> On 06/07/2015 01:10 AM, Joshua Riesenweber wrote:  [snip]

What the industry could probably use most for entry-level certs is
a  technical reading comprehension requirement on the certs, or a requirement
of GRE  scores  e.g. 145 Verbal,  160 Math, before being able to obtain
the certs,  to demonstrate an ability to read and understand documentation,
including BNF,  and the ability to lookup something from a technical manual,
read, understand, and apply it properly  using qualified background knowledge
at the level being certified.

Too often, certs concentrate on trivial minutia that is "trivially
tested",  but also not
frequently used,   so the population has a bunch of people who just paid
copious $$$  for  in-person coaching on _just the specifics of the exam_,
or people who memorized answers from stolen copies of exams.

So even in that,  many of the tests  lose their ability, due to the
intervention of
3rd party "learning providers"   who are just making a quick buck training
candidates directly to exams,   instead of teaching the subject.

In short: In regards to the use of certifications when hiring --- they
can be used by
non-technical reviewers to help filter candidates, where there are
more applicants than
desired.    Consider it a  "bulk" filtering criteria  that can be done
instantly without wasting
as much time,   and the final filter might be an internal quiz and
human interviewers.


The certs are no definitive measure, but candidates with Both
experience and industry
certs to help confirm the quality of that experience are more likely
to be applicants worth
committing serious time to evaluate,  And they can be used to help break ties
between otherwise equal applicants  in favor of those certified.


As to if it matters whether the certification is for Cisco equipment and you
use X vendor equipment instead,  I would refer to
semi-relevant link here:
http://www.jasonbock.net/jb/News/Item/7c334037d1a9437d9fa6506e2f35eaac


If Carpenters were hired like engineers....
'I see here, you have experience with cutting timber with "Makita and
Milwaukee brand Skillsaws"
Unfortunately,  we need someone with 25 years experience using the DeWalts.'

Certifications can also be used by consultants/contractors to market services,
or assure end customers that their services are by people  "qualified
by the vendor
of their equipment".



> The R&S CCIE lab exame is a timed practical exam, and as certification tests
> goes it does a fair job measuring the ability of the candidate to implement
> routers and switches to obtain certain results, ON CISCO EQUIPMENT.  (This
> is also true of the other Cisco certification tracks.)

Correct.   However,  earning a certification such as CCIE demonstrates
that you are not
one of those clueless folks who completely lacks understanding and
ability to learn
basic config and troubleshooting.    Earning the cert would require a
great deal of practice
due to their time limits,   therefore the candidate that holds one
shows proof of
a certain level of dedication to advancement or learning within the field.

And sufficient technical aptitude and ability to learn is implied by
the certificate to deal
with other vendor's equipment, even though Cisco's certifications only
address Cisco
equipment directly;  there are many  vendor-neutral concepts which should have
been understood for success.


The specifics of configuration language and hardware are
"implementation details".
No certification measures a candidate's ability to quickly learn novel
configuration syntax
or special rules of arbitrary $new_vendor's  equipment.

> One can learn how to do almost anything.  The real trick is being able to
> finish tasks quickly, and that's damn hard to do without practice, practice,

Ability to finish tasks *accurately* is what matters.
But very simple things should be done quickly.

The results of non-repetitive tasks should always be looked at carefully to help
validate accuracy,,

And the practice required to do any tasks that are frequent and repetitive
should be gained by anyone qualified on the job fairly quickly.

> That said, certifications show that the candidate can turn a wrench.  It
> shows nothing about the candidate's ability to handle ARIN, to troubleshoot
> political snafus, how to deal with management that is severely

All of these are things that can be learned without a large amount of grief,
you need reading comprehension;
ARIN's policies and tools are fairly well documented in writing.

The candidate who can't even learn and pass a cert test might actually
be incapable of learning what is required on their own.

It's not cost-effective to buy  in-person training or certify for
*every little thing* that
comes up later.

> clue-deficient, and most important play nice with colleagues at other

--
-JH



More information about the NANOG mailing list