NANOG Digest, Vol 43, Issue 37

Wed Aug 10 23:57:26 UTC 2011

Ken Henault
senior infrastructure architect
enterprise solutions & architecture
e-mail: bladeguy at hp.com
phone: 603-421-2852
twitter: @bladeguy

________________________________
On Aug 10, 2011 7:47 PM, nanog-request at nanog.org <nanog-request at nanog.org> wrote:

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Today's Topics:

   1. Re: network issue help (Valdis.Kletnieks at vt.edu)
   2. Re: network issue help (Dan White)
   3. Re: network issue help (Chaim Rieger)
   4. Re: IPv6 end user addressing (Owen DeLong)
   5. Re: network issue help (Jason Biel)
   6. RE: network issue help (Brandon Kim)
   7. Re: IPv6 end user addressing (Owen DeLong)
   8. Re: network issue help (Tammy A. Wisdom)
   9. Re: network issue help (Stefan Fouant)
  10. Re: network issue help (Garrett Skjelstad)

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 1
Date: Wed, 10 Aug 2011 17:54:31 -0400
From: Valdis.Kletnieks at vt.edu
To: Tim Vollebregt <tim at interworx.nl>
Cc: nanog list <nanog at nanog.org>
Subject: Re: network issue help
Message-ID: <39602.1313013271 at turing-police.cc.vt.edu>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

On Wed, 10 Aug 2011 23:37:04 +0200, Tim Vollebregt said:
> http://www.amazon.com/Networking-Dummies-Doug-Lowe/dp/0470534052
>
> Here you go..

Oh, and he wants to read this helpful guide by Eric S. Raymond, too:

http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html

Deric doesn't know he wants to.. but he *wants* to. *Right Now*. :)
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------------------------------

Message: 2
Date: Wed, 10 Aug 2011 17:09:17 -0500
From: Dan White <dwhite at olp.net>
To: Valdis.Kletnieks at vt.edu
Cc: nanog list <nanog at nanog.org>
Subject: Re: network issue help
Message-ID: <20110810220917.GH4565 at dan.olp.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed

On 10/08/11?17:54?-0400, Valdis.Kletnieks at vt.edu wrote:
>On Wed, 10 Aug 2011 23:37:04 +0200, Tim Vollebregt said:
>> http://www.amazon.com/Networking-Dummies-Doug-Lowe/dp/0470534052
>>
>> Here you go..
>
>Oh, and he wants to read this helpful guide by Eric S. Raymond, too:
>
>http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html
>
>Deric doesn't know he wants to.. but he *wants* to. *Right Now*. :)

And along similar lines - "How to Report Bugs Effectively":

http://www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/~sgtatham/bugs.html

--
Dan White

------------------------------

Message: 3
Date: Wed, 10 Aug 2011 15:15:41 -0700
From: Chaim Rieger <chaim.rieger at gmail.com>
To: nanog at nanog.org
Subject: Re: network issue help
Message-ID: <4E43030D.3050505 at gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed

replied inline, with a summary below

On 8/10/2011 2:35 PM, Deric Kwok wrote:
> Hi
>
> There is problem in our network. The connection is disappearing.
 From this i take is that you are using the avaya networking gear with
the fcoe protocol enabled, this is a big no-no. you need to disable
ipsec, then enable dns, your connection should come right back
>
> ls it about lop ing?
it is not about lops at all, nor is it about looping, its all about the
trees dude, there is a hidder feature called, treehugger protocol. and
this will help prevent looping in the long term, its hidden behind the
power chord, unplug the power cable from your switch, and you will see
it between the three prongs. no that you can see this, test for
excessive looping
>
> How can I check it in switch?
if the step above failed, i would take the cable that is plugged into
port 7 of your switch and plug the other end into port 13, it might
help, i would also leave in there for a while, and go grab a cup of coffee
>
> ls spammingtree disable by default?
only if there are branches
>
> Thank you so much
welcome
>
>

------------------------------

Message: 4
Date: Wed, 10 Aug 2011 15:33:20 -0700
From: Owen DeLong <owen at delong.com>
To: Scott Helms <khelms at ispalliance.net>
Cc: nanog at nanog.org
Subject: Re: IPv6 end user addressing
Message-ID: <48838ED8-1C06-493E-8FA5-5BBB96873BD8 at delong.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

There is some deployable technology that allows some aspects of this today.
Yes, it's in its infancy. Small prefix limitations will guarantee it never sees the
light of day just as NAT precluded many useful innovations from getting deployed.

Layer 3 isolation is only isolation by agreement if the hosts have some way
to get on the same physical or logical LAN layer 2 segment. Otherwise, layer 3
isolation is as effective as any firewall. Layer 2 isolation, OTOH, is both
harder to administer and no more effective than layer 3. If you can bypass layer 3
by connecting to the same LAN segment, chances are you can bypass layer 2
by making that LAN segment one which doesn't go through the enforcement
switch between the two devices in question.

Owen

On Aug 10, 2011, at 8:11 AM, Scott Helms wrote:

> Neither of these are true, though in the future we _might_ have deployable technology that allows for automated routing setup (though I very seriously doubt it) in the home.  Layer 2 isolation is both easier and more reliable than attempting it at layer 3 which is isolation by agreement, i.e. it doesn't really exist.
>
> On 8/10/2011 9:02 AM, Owen DeLong wrote:
>>
>> Bridging eliminates the multicast isolation that you get from routing.
>>
>> This is not a case for bridging, it's a case for making it possible to do real
>> routing in the home and we now have the space and the technology to
>> actually do it in a meaningful and sufficiently automatic way as to be
>> applicable to Joe 6-Mac.
>>
>
> --
> Scott Helms
> Vice President of Technology
> ISP Alliance, Inc. DBA ZCorum
> (678) 507-5000
> --------------------------------
> http://twitter.com/kscotthelms
> --------------------------------
>

------------------------------

Message: 5
Date: Wed, 10 Aug 2011 17:51:52 -0500
From: Jason Biel <jason at biel-tech.com>
To: Chaim Rieger <chaim.rieger at gmail.com>
Cc: nanog at nanog.org
Subject: Re: network issue help
Message-ID:
        <CAGpNY1Hmwo9Aj1v0rq5GEWS6X-bY5==2xpn5LhfdDGhAwyO6gA at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

TBH, this thread has made the hour preceding my Juniper upgrades *way* more
enjoyable.

On Wed, Aug 10, 2011 at 5:15 PM, Chaim Rieger <chaim.rieger at gmail.com>wrote:

> replied inline, with a summary below
>
>
> On 8/10/2011 2:35 PM, Deric Kwok wrote:
>
>> Hi
>>
>> There is problem in our network. The connection is disappearing.
>>
> From this i take is that you are using the avaya networking gear with the
> fcoe protocol enabled, this is a big no-no. you need to disable ipsec, then
> enable dns, your connection should come right back
>
>
>> ls it about lop ing?
>>
> it is not about lops at all, nor is it about looping, its all about the
> trees dude, there is a hidder feature called, treehugger protocol. and this
> will help prevent looping in the long term, its hidden behind the power
> chord, unplug the power cable from your switch, and you will see it between
> the three prongs. no that you can see this, test for excessive looping
>
>
>> How can I check it in switch?
>>
> if the step above failed, i would take the cable that is plugged into port
> 7 of your switch and plug the other end into port 13, it might help, i would
> also leave in there for a while, and go grab a cup of coffee
>
>
>> ls spammingtree disable by default?
>>
> only if there are branches
>
>>
>> Thank you so much
>>
> welcome
>
>>
>>
>>
>
>

--
Jason

------------------------------

Message: 6
Date: Wed, 10 Aug 2011 19:10:59 -0400
From: Brandon Kim <brandon.kim at brandontek.com>
To: <leigh.porter at ukbroadband.com>, <jason at biel-tech.com>
Cc: nanog group <nanog at nanog.org>
Subject: RE: network issue help
Message-ID: <BLU158-W44F0E2714A23615FA51E8DDC230 at phx.gbl>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

haha! Spammingtree! I love it!!!

> From: leigh.porter at ukbroadband.com
> To: jason at biel-tech.com
> Subject: Re: network issue help
> Date: Wed, 10 Aug 2011 21:50:27 +0000
> CC: nanog at nanog.org
>
> I just wish spammingtree was on by default.
>
> --
> Leigh Porter
>
>
> On 10 Aug 2011, at 22:47, "Jason Biel" <jason at biel-tech.com> wrote:
>
> > Is it to the point where I can just forward the emails from help desk to
> > NANOG so I don't have to answer them?
> >
> > Biel
> >
> > On Wed, Aug 10, 2011 at 4:39 PM, -Hammer- <bhmccie at gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >> LOL
> >>
> >> -Hammer-
> >>
> >> "I was a normal American nerd"
> >> -Jack Herer
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> On 08/10/2011 04:37 PM, Tim Vollebregt wrote:
> >>
> >>> http://www.amazon.com/**Networking-Dummies-Doug-Lowe/**dp/0470534052<http://www.amazon.com/Networking-Dummies-Doug-Lowe/dp/0470534052>
> >>>
> >>> Here you go..
> >>> On Aug 10, 2011, at 11:35 PM, Deric Kwok wrote:
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>> Hi
> >>>>
> >>>> There is problem in our network. The connection is disappearing.
> >>>>
> >>>> ls it about lop ing?
> >>>>
> >>>> How can I check it in switch?
> >>>>
> >>>> ls spammingtree disable by default?
> >>>>
> >>>> Thank you so much
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
> >
> >
> > --
> > Jason
> >
> > ______________________________________________________________________
> > This email has been scanned by the MessageLabs Email Security System.
> > For more information please visit http://www.messagelabs.com/email
> > ______________________________________________________________________
>
> ______________________________________________________________________
> This email has been scanned by the MessageLabs Email Security System.
> For more information please visit http://www.messagelabs.com/email
> ______________________________________________________________________
>

------------------------------

Message: 7
Date: Wed, 10 Aug 2011 16:12:31 -0700
From: Owen DeLong <owen at delong.com>
To: Jeff Wheeler <jsw at inconcepts.biz>
Cc: NANOG <nanog at nanog.org>
Subject: Re: IPv6 end user addressing
Message-ID: <1F6C0D3C-320E-4D72-BF41-C8796707B932 at delong.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

On Aug 10, 2011, at 11:17 AM, Jeff Wheeler wrote:

> On Wed, Aug 10, 2011 at 2:03 PM, Owen DeLong <owen at delong.com> wrote:
>> That said, /48 to the home should be what is happening, and /56 is
>> a better compromise than anything smaller.
>
> Is hierarchical routing within the SOHO network the reason you believe
> /48 is useful?  You don't really imagine that end-users will require
> more than 2^8 subnets, but that they will want several levels of very
> simple, nibble-aligned routers within their network?
>

Not necessarily nibble aligned, but, multiple bits per level, yes.

> This is perhaps a good discussion to have.  I, for one, see CPE
> vendors still shipping products without IPv6 support at all, let alone
> any mechanism for creating an address or routing hierarchy within the
> home without the end-user configuring it himself.  I am not aware of
> any automatic means to do this, or even any working group trying to
> produce that feature.
>

If we are stingy in address allocations, it will stifle such innovations as
the vendors tend to develop to the lowest common denominator. If we
make the allocations available, innovative ideas will make use of them.

> Is it true that there is no existing work on this?  If that is the
> case, why would we not try to steer any such future work in such a way
> that it can manage to do what the end-user wants without requiring a
> /48 in their home?
>

No, it is not true.

I suppose that limiting enough households to too small an allocation
will have that effect. I would rather we steer the internet deployment
towards liberal enough allocations to avoid such disability for the
future.

Have we learned nothing from the way NAT shaped the (lack of)
innovation in the home?

Owen

------------------------------

Message: 8
Date: Wed, 10 Aug 2011 17:26:13 -0600 (MDT)
From: "Tammy A. Wisdom" <tammy-lists at wiztech.biz>
To: Deric Kwok <deric.kwok2000 at gmail.com>
Cc: nanog at nanog.org
Subject: Re: network issue help
Message-ID:
        <0fcdc524-3ac8-419f-8e79-821c69ad364e at lordsofacid.wiztech.biz>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8

solution: quit smoking crack.

----- Original Message -----
> From: "Deric Kwok" <deric.kwok2000 at gmail.com>
> To: "nanog list" <nanog at nanog.org>
> Sent: Wednesday, August 10, 2011 3:35:18 PM
> Subject: network issue help
>
> Hi
>
> There is problem in our network. The connection is disappearing.
>
> ls it about lop ing?
>
> How can I check it in switch?
>
> ls spammingtree disable by default?
>
> Thank you so much
>
>

------------------------------

Message: 9
Date: Wed, 10 Aug 2011 19:33:53 -0400
From: Stefan Fouant <sfouant at shortestpathfirst.net>
To: Deric Kwok <deric.kwok2000 at gmail.com>
Cc: nanog list <nanog at nanog.org>
Subject: Re: network issue help
Message-ID:
        <8AEC36A4-45BB-49F6-8C86-02404F31D1C1 at shortestpathfirst.net>
Content-Type: text/plain;       charset=us-ascii

Is there an acronym for RTFM when there are a volume of manuals that need to be read?

Stefan Fouant
JNCIE-M, JNCIE-ER, JNCIE-SEC, JNCI
Technical Trainer, Juniper Networks
http://www.shortestpathfirst.net
http://www.twitter.com/sfouant

Sent from my iPad

On Aug 10, 2011, at 5:35 PM, Deric Kwok <deric.kwok2000 at gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi
>
> There is problem in our network. The connection is disappearing.
>
> ls it about lop ing?
>
> How can I check it in switch?
>
> ls spammingtree disable by default?
>
> Thank you so much
>

------------------------------

Message: 10
Date: Wed, 10 Aug 2011 16:47:10 -0700
From: Garrett Skjelstad <garrett at skjelstad.org>
To: Stefan Fouant <sfouant at shortestpathfirst.net>
Cc: nanog list <nanog at nanog.org>
Subject: Re: network issue help
Message-ID: <CAEE2529-0E64-4854-8B97-A22DB7ED5A10 at skjelstad.org>
Content-Type: text/plain;       charset=us-ascii

Yea, it's T2SP or Time to Switch Professions...

Sent from my iPhone

On Aug 10, 2011, at 16:33, Stefan Fouant <sfouant at shortestpathfirst.net> wrote:

> Is there an acronym for RTFM when there are a volume of manuals that need to be read?
>
> Stefan Fouant
> JNCIE-M, JNCIE-ER, JNCIE-SEC, JNCI
> Technical Trainer, Juniper Networks
> http://www.shortestpathfirst.net
> http://www.twitter.com/sfouant
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
> On Aug 10, 2011, at 5:35 PM, Deric Kwok <deric.kwok2000 at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Hi
>>
>> There is problem in our network. The connection is disappearing.
>>
>> ls it about lop ing?
>>
>> How can I check it in switch?
>>
>> ls spammingtree disable by default?
>>
>> Thank you so much
>>
>

End of NANOG Digest, Vol 43, Issue 37
*************************************